everlastinggodstopper ([info]ernunnos) wrote,
2008-07-05 10:48:00
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Never talk to the police.

Here are two half hour segments from a Virginia law school class. The first talk is from a law professor and defense attorney, James Duane, the second segment is from the opposite side, a Virginia Beach police officer, George Bruch. The law students in this class paid a lot of money for this advice. It squares with everything I have ever heard from the police and lawyers I know. But don't take my word for it—I am not a lawyer, and don't pretend to be—watch it yourself.

And remember it if you are ever involved in a self-defense shooting.

One important thing to note here is that the two do not disagree. In fact, the second segment is not even a rebuttal, it's just an explanation of the various techniques the police will use to get you to incriminate yourself if you do decide to ignore this advice.

The only thing I will add to this—and again, I am not a lawyer—is to reiterate Professor Duane's very first point. Quote, "There is no way it can help." Emphasis his. The cops will tell you it can help. But as Officer Bruch points out, they are legally allowed to lie to you. And will.

(By way of [info]foobiwan, x-posted to [info]guns.)


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  • 13 comments

[info]octal

July 5 2008, 18:02:33 UTC 3 years ago

The detective is really really good at manipulating people; it's impressive.

(the FIRST rule of the aftermath self-defense shooting is obviously behaving as safely as possible and not getting shot by the police; after that point, the "speak with my lawyer" thing is important)

[info]ernunnos

July 5 2008, 20:41:28 UTC 3 years ago

It's what he does for a living. His boxing analogy is spot-on. He's a pro heavyweight fighter, and even getting in the ring with him is a bad idea.

It's one of the reasons cops need to be held to a higher standard, and I think that goes for many other professions where the general untrained public has to interact with professionals. (Bankers being the example I've been talking about most over the last two years or so.)

[info]solar_diablo

July 5 2008, 19:48:00 UTC 3 years ago

Some good info there, thanks for posting.

[info]ernunnos

July 5 2008, 20:43:03 UTC 3 years ago

You're welcome. I'm a little peeved at [info]foobiwan for just posting to facebook. It would have scrolled off my list and I would have missed it there if I hadn't logged in today. Want to spread this as far and wide as possible. It's the single best summary of this I've seen so far, even better than those silly ACLU videos.

[info]solar_diablo

July 5 2008, 21:19:17 UTC 3 years ago

You mind if I make a post in my LJ with a link to here?

[info]ernunnos

July 5 2008, 21:23:37 UTC 3 years ago

Not at all! It's not common knowledge, but it should be.

[info]lds

July 6 2008, 02:36:33 UTC 3 years ago

Agreed, but I also wanted to say... I really like that law prof's style. It'd probably be grueling to be a student of his day in and day out, but for a quick, educate-everybody-fast lesson on the Internet, it's perfect: enjoyable, educational, efficient, effective.

[info]ratkrycek

July 6 2008, 11:36:05 UTC 3 years ago

I'm here from your link, and I've passed it on to several other people, as well.

Thank you both - this is pretty important stuff to know.

[info]fiachra

July 5 2008, 23:16:46 UTC 3 years ago

That was damned educational. I'm linking as well.

[info]ernunnos

July 6 2008, 03:14:18 UTC 3 years ago

Cool, I hope lots of people see this. It's the sort of the thing that should be shown in every high school in the nation.

[info]cork_dork

July 6 2008, 05:00:57 UTC 3 years ago

It's good advice all the way around, for everyone, not just gun owners. Despite Officer Bruch's insistence that he tries not to convict innocent people (and I believe him! But, if the Innocence Project is even close to right, a good chunk of our prison population is made up of people who are innocent of the crimes that sent them to prison -- although they may be guilty of other ones), if the cops have a suspect in custody that they can convict based upon a "bad" statement at an interview, it's a whole lot more efficient to close the case and send it to trial than to continue to investigate.

That is probably why I've read of CCW holders getting business cards printed up, stating "I will not consent to an interview without council. My attorney is [foo] and their office number is [bar]." Not a bad ideal to hand them to the investigating officer after a defensive shooting... and perhaps to remind themselves that taking the 5th is a good idea, even if you're perfectly innocent and it's a justified event.

So, I agree, this is probably the best legal advice anyone can get. Shut the hell up. "I won't talk except to my attorney," should probably be a phrase taught in every high school civics class in the country.

Deleted comment

[info]manuka

July 8 2008, 02:32:30 UTC 3 years ago

Only if you say pretty please.

[info]kenshi

July 9 2008, 21:51:44 UTC 3 years ago

And call him "bro".
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